http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=nu20Uv5BQhU&feature=related
lol
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=zfIf1-7KEoM&feature=related
checkout this one lol
lol, stupid
lol
all ghost crap is just annoying to me
it's like UFOs
lol
because seriously look at the situations where ghosts are sighted
it's all during times where it's like, why the fuck do these people have a camera on
do you believe in a spiritual side at all?
eh?
do you believe that what we are, physical isn't the only side of things to exist?
do you mean do I believe in a spiritual world or ghosts
not necessarily ghosts but yeah 'the unseen' world so to speak
mm
not really
lol
do you discard the possibility of it?
not of a god-like being
well I wasn't really asking about the existence of god lol thats another question
ok forget a spiritual world lets talk purely theoretical maths
something like the 4th dimension if it does exist
we have 3 other dimensions from which we can gather rules for a 4th dimesion
any lower dimension can be displayed in a higher dimension
ie. 2 dimensions like a drawing can be in 3 dimensional space
etc.
I know what you're talking about I ain't stupid XP
an approximation of a higher dimension can be displayed on a lower dimension too, like a 3d game on a screen
you know the concept of a hyper cube?
yes
so you know all the maths and stuff behind it?
well anyway
nah never cared
lol, ok
so from a mathematical standpoint each side extends in a higher dimension...I'll try to demonstrate
^-- 1D:, x plane
^--- 2D: x, y planes
^-- 3D: x, y, z planes
so 4d would have each side of the cube extend or double but still remain connected illogically to our 3d minds
theoretically, we could see a 4 dimensional image the same way a 2d man on a screen could see the approximation of a 3d image
but we couldn't comprehend what we were seeing the same way the 2d man couldn't fully grasp what he was looking at
lol, yeah
so theoretically the 4th dimension could exist
but we would neither see it or if we did, we wouldn't understand it because it is beyond what we could even hope to understand
and doesn't follow our 3d laws or logic
yes, but what it would be is too hard to comprehend
but it could still exist
the only way we could even begin to get an idea is with our imagination only, not our logic
I can pretty much tell you what it would have to be to exist
it would have to be a series of universes mashed together to form something even larger scale
how do you know?
because our universe is already 3 dimensional
as far as we know
No, you aren't understanding me
3 Dimensions is as far as this universe can expand, because something else can't expand upon what is already 3 dimensional
how do you know?
not in our universe
to the 2d man, a piece of paper is his universe
how could it?
that's my point
but it is still within a bigger 3d universe
but he doesn't know anything beyond the bounds of his piece of paper
that's why I'm saying a 4th dimension could only be a mashing of multiple universes
because our universe is the 3d universe
and aside from the fact that the paper is within our 3rd dimension, the 2 aren't related
it doesn't scale down to simply be our planet
what do you mean?
our planet is not the only one that follows the 3 dimensional law
aye
but everything within our 3d world follows 3d laws, the same as everything on a piece of paper follows 2d laws
Yes, but our universe is our piece of paper
exactly
which is why it would have to be a myriad of universes grouped together
to form a 4th dimension
oh
I see what you mean
but
you can have a stack of papers....it is not the paper itself that defines a desk or an office or a dimension
it is but one element within that dimension
the 2 dimensional world is a piece of paper
no matter how big that piece of paper gets it is still 2 Dimensional
yep
and you could theoretically have different size 3d papers within a 4d world as well
but you could also have 4d houses, 4d cities, 4d planets
No, for the same reason as you cannot have 3D men on a 2d piece of paper
you're talking about having a higher dimension in a lower dimension, I'm talking about having a lower dimension in a higher dimension, which is already possible as you can have 2d in 3d space
Yeah, but for that to occur our universe would have to not be 3D
which it has proven to be
but it would be to us, which it is
to the 2d man, his paper is 2d
he has no concept of the edges nor could he hope to
his world is defined by his reality
Now you realize why we think the universe does not end
because it is the only thing in our realm of understanding
that it simply goes on forever
but it is our piece of paper
I believe that our universe can be defined by 3d space
the same as a piece of paper can be defined by 2d space
but it can also be defined by 3d space as well
Exactly
our universe cannot be 4D period
but it can be a part of something 4D
lol
but a piece of paper is 3d
what's your point?
you're trying to get too technical here
ok let me try to re-iterate
when talking about the piece of paper
to the 2d man on a piece of paper, the paper is 2d
but to the 3d man, the paper can be defined by 2d but in reality is 3d
as paper also has a back, which it would not in 2d
but the 2d man does not know any better
we as 3d men define our paper as 3d
we define out world as 3d
but if we are but a piece of 3d paper in a 4d universe
our universe to use would be, could only be defined as 3d
but in reality would be a 4d element
do you see what I'm saying?
I get what you're saying, but it applies differently
how so?
because the 3D piece of paper is but a simple part of the 3D world
exactly
and I'm trying to say that if a 4d reality did exist, we would only be a simple part of it
yes, but that still does not make our universe 4d
why not?
because the 2d Man does not actually believe his piece of paper is 2d
because he does not know he is part of a piece of paper
he is part of a 2D world
that doesn't rule out the possibility though
his world is not 3D
it just makes it beyond the 2d man's understanding and comprehension
our Universe is not 4D
lol, to US
but it could be a part of it
it's a matter of perception only
but
for us looking down at a piece of paper
No, you're missing my point
we can instantly say that a piece of paper is 3d
the 2d man does not believe himself to be part of a piece of paper
just because the 2d man's perception is different doesn't change that fact
No, his world is 2 dimensional
just the plane that his world exists in is 3 dimensional
we could be in the plane of the 4th dimension
then how would you explain the back of the paper?
which is an intrinsically 3d concept
in a 2d world
the back of the paper is a separate 2 dimensional world
but it's still part of the same piece of paper
but also exists in the 3 dimensional plane
no it is not
not in terms of 2 D
in terms of 3D it is one piece of paper
but it isn't 2d
the paper is 3d
it's only 2d to the man who lives on it
it's one piece of paper containing 2 2D worlds
actually it contains 6 2d worlds
a paper has 6 sides
4 are to thin as to be inconsequential to us
but that is what defines paper as 3d
Yeah
a 4 D object would have to contain 24 sides
if it was cube based lol
at minimum, that is
well no, the minimum would be trigonal based not cube based
but that's getting sidetracked lol
but
in the same way that the paper could contain 2 completely different worlds
both of those worlds couldn't exist without the other
and one of those worlds is unseen to the other
one side of paper is one 2D world
yes
it can't contain more than one
I know that
you're proving my point more by the way
since you can have one world on one side
and one on the other
but they don't know about each other
I never disputed that
we could easily have multiple universes making up a 4th Dimension
you're trying to say that our universe could be a multi verse...I never disputed that
I do dispute that a 4d universe is defined by 3d objects though
for the simple reason that our 3d world isn't defined by 2d objects
Yes it is
sure we have 2d objects in our world, but it doesn't define us
3D is made up of thousands of 2D objects together
we could define it like that, but that is an incorrect assumption
a brick isn't made up of infinite 2d brick planes layered together
2d doesn't have any depth at all, so it doesn't matter how many 2d planes you put into a brick it would always remain 2d
a 2d plane is infinitely thin
it's like dividing something by 0 lol
that's wrong, actually
oh?
what is necessary for a 2D world to exist?
an x plane and a y plane
up down, left and right
lets use the piece of paper as an example
no in or out
you can create a 2D man with a pencil
but that pencil lead technically lifts itself off the paper
so technically that man is not really 2D
now your getting into a technicality which doesn't really have anything to do with our subject
we don't know that a 4d element somehow created us
well then you have to divide this into two different categories then
what do you mean?
because 3D images are created using 2D images
no 3d images are created using 3d elements....a 3d image is a sculpture or a statue
a 3d image on a 2d plane is an approximation that we would recognize as 3d but is not in fact 3d
in order to determine the possibility of a 4th Plane being the creator of our plane
we would have to determine if 1D lead to 2D
or if 2D lead to 1D
but we don't know what 1D is in actuality, because 2D is as low as our minds can fathom as well
we can fathom 1 dimensions too
a 1d man would be simply a point on a line
his every day would be traveling in between 2 points that define his line
well there you go
well there I go what? lol
we began with 1D, then moved into 2D
then 2D moved on to 3D
how so?
2D is made up of infinitely many lines
no
you're thinking of 1d from a 2d perspective
you cannot create the next dimension without the previous
true
but it extends
and build upon it
it is not made up of JUST the previous dimension
2d is made up of 2 dimensions... in 1 dimension any line can only be in ... 1 dimension or direction, lets call it x....the y direction is totally different
the introduction of the Z plane is how we expanded
we were never 2d to begin with
lol
which is why you need two separate categories
ok, I'm confused
2 categories for what?
what are we talking about?
to divide up what is 2D
because inorganic objects follow different dimensional laws than organics
how so?
because inorganic objects can be created through numerous 2D objects
I think you're missing the point
what's the point then? XP
lol well my original point is that the 4th dimension could exist and would be unseen and incomprehensible to us as 3d beings except as an approximation which would still be incomprehensible
your original point isn't exactly true XP
how not?
well, a 4th dimension could easily exist
...well my original point is that the 4th dimension could exist and...
it's not part of our dimension though
I never said that lol
but you do not dispute that an unseen world could exist and that illogical things to us may happen because of it?
I dispute that there's an unseen world to the death
what do you mean?
I'm saying it's more or less impossible for something unseen to be manipulating us
why do you say that?
if we rippled, folded, scrunched, tore, or even touched the world of a 2d man on his paper, it would be something unseen manipulating him in uncomprehendable ways
the difference is, 2D and 1D objects are not organic and do not contain thought process
true, but for that analogy to work at all and with all good analogies you must use a little imagination
otherwise we may as well throw out the whole argument
the only reason it is so hard for us to comprehend a 4th dimension is because we can think
whereas there is probably a lot more truth in that statement than you know, my whole hypothesis was based around a 2 dimensional man not a drawing but a living thinking man in 2d lol
I know
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